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Open Office - [discuss] How should OOo deal with ods-spreadsheets producedby Excel 2010?

Open Office - [discuss] How should OOo deal with ods-spreadsheets producedby Excel 2010?

[discuss] How should OOo deal with ods-spreadsheets producedby Excel 2010?

Posted: 14 Apr 2010 10:52 AM PDT

Hi Niklas,

Niklas Nebel schrieb: 

The problem is, that Excel 2010 has a lot of _new_ functions. Therefore
the user gets a lot of #NAME? errors. He can see in the input line, what
formula causes this error, but the bad thing is, that the user is not
able to see the value, that has been calculated in Excel.
 

No, you cannot use xls, because the functions are not available in xls.
To make it clearer. Up to Excel 2007 there are only small problems. Most
major functions have a counterpart in the other application. But with
Excel 2010 we get more than 50 new functions. A lot of them can be
mapped to Calc function. But there are at least AGGREGATE, CONFIDENCE.T,
CEILING.PRECISE, F.DIST, MODE.MULT and NETWORKSDAYS.INTL (I have not yet
examined all the others) where a simple mapping is impossible.

You wrote:
"When saving, we would have to know if the file is meant to be opened in
Excel. In the end, it would boil down to choosing a different file
format."
That would be the choice C of my initial posting?

kind regards
Regina



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[discuss] Official request to the community council [was: OOoand Oracle]

Posted: 13 Apr 2010 02:25 PM PDT

Hi Cor, all

I changed the subject, because I want to follow your proposal to
position my concerns officially at the Community Council, while keeping
in this thread in order to inform the community about this specific request.

*Please don't support the application independency of the ODF document
icons!*

Cor Nouws schrieb: 
We've been discussing some of my personal concerns on several lists and
in private mail, but one point among several Sun/Oracle decisions in the
past few months needs clarification by the Community Council IMO:

Rosana Ardila stated on discuss@ux [1] and branding@marketing [2] with
regards to the new document icons that don't include any OpenOffice.org
branding or resemblance: "Where there is no room for changes is on the
branding of the icons (no gulls). The idea of supporting ODF as a
application independent open standard is the priority."

This priority has never been decided nor supported by the community.

In Spring 2009 there has been a decision by the Engineering Steering
Committee going far beyond it's responsibilities described as "Provide
advice on technical implementations in case of conflicting interests."
on the CC homepage [3] that has only been mentioned in their minutes [4].

Half a year later Lutz Höger blogged about the new ODF icons on GullFOSS
[5] and if not an attentive community member had noticed it (Thanks,
Volker!), they would have been implemented in OOo3.2.0 without further
notice.

During the last months there have been concerns, discussions and
proposals on several lists, but the only result was an update of the
icons with slightly more contrast.

I don't want to discuss the design of the icons here - it's about their
basics:

Why should OpenOffice.org give away it's presence on the user's desktop
- the main place to be recognized by the people - only to support the
"application independency" of ODF?

We want to support ODF - even on the desktop. So let's add an "ODF"
badge to every ODF document and all the applications supporting this
document format.

But I know that I'm not alone, if I don't support giving up OOo branding
in the document icons.

Application independency is just one of several important aspects of ODF
- interoperability can be promoted by the ODF badge on similar (even on
different) document icons, but allowing us to promote OpenOffice.org at
the same time (and telling the users that they open *our* application to
work on ODF documents) will not reduce ODF perception to a measurable
degree.

On the contrast: I could imagine that it might be much easier for other
producers of ODF supporting applications to follow our way to support
ODF by similar document icons, if they would contain an application
related symbol like the ones I proposed for OOo [6].

It's reasonable for Oracle to remove the Sun branding in StarOffice
document icons already in the last version called "StarOffice". But
this can't be a reason for OpenOffice.org to follow this step.
StarOffice doesn't need it's branding any more - on the contrast, it's
nonconstructive for future development.

OpenOffice.org needs to stay visible on our users desktops - please find
a way to tell our major code contributor that being part of the
community means not to ignore the minority. Especially if this minority
(I'm quite sure that it is the majority if we would count people) spends
a lot of dedication, idealism and time for our community and our product.

I don't want to provide manpower for free to a marketing strategy that
doesn't have OpenOffice.org as main focus. 
Sorry, I don't have lots of positive remarks on this topic, but
following the recent CC meetings, it seems that your work becomes more
target- and community-oriented by an improved wiki presence,
participation in the newsletter and open IRC slots in your meetings :-) 
I don't want to run away - I've spent hundreds (thousands?) of hours for
OOo during the last six years. I've done this with joy and have been
convinced of the necessity and reasonability of this work. I want to be
able to keep on with this work in future.

Best regards

Bernhard

[1]: http://ux.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=4888

[2]:
http://marketing.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=branding&msgNo=112

[3]: http://council.openoffice.org/esc/index.html

[4]:
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/ESC_meeting_minutes_20090309#proposal_for_unified_ ODF_Document_icons

[5]: http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS/entry/unified_odf_icons

[6]:
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/File:ODF_textdocument_different_sizes_S.png


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[discuss] OOo and Oracle

Posted: 13 Apr 2010 03:25 AM PDT

Hi Bruce,

Bruce Martin wrote (13-04-10 18:38) 

I think it is worth looking to the mails on releases @:
http://www.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=releases&msgNo=15469

Best wishes,
Cor

-- 

Cor Nouws
- ideas/remarks for the community council?
- http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council


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[discuss] Improvements to the program

Posted: 06 Apr 2010 10:16 PM PDT

On Apr 7, 2010, at 12:28 PM, Tony Pursell wrote:
 

No, that may have worked, up to a point, for EasyWriter thirty years ago, but it's an abuse of OpenOffice.org, and will sooner or later screw up your page layout. You can Format->Paragraph, pick (if it is not already picked) Indents & Spacing, and enter a value in Spacing:Below paragraph, but if you're sensible, you do the same thing, but apply it to a style, and then apply the style to the paragraphs.

Same thing for Microsoft Word (going back to Word for DOS 1.0, back in 1983), same thing for Pages (in Apple iWork), same thing for any WYSIWYG word processor I know of. Same thing, too, for any modern markup language, for that matter, if you adjust the terminology a little -- even for HTML -- going back at least to when GML (without the S) was an IBM proprietary product for mainframes and laser printers were the size of a VW bus.

You can use the point of a steak knife to turn a Philips-head screw if you insist on it, but it's bad for the knife and bad for the screw, and is likely to end in tears.

--
John W Kennedy
"The grand art mastered the thudding hammer of Thor
And the heart of our lord Taliessin determined the war."
-- Charles Williams. "Mount Badon"




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[discuss] PDF's

Posted: 06 Apr 2010 01:39 PM PDT

Bruce Martin wrote: 

I don't know about Erik (who, by the way, is not subscribed to the
list), but I'm not a teacher. I have taught seniors at a local center to
use their computers, unfortunately before I encountered OOo. Mostly
they'd been given the computers by their "kids" and had no idea what to
do with them! I think there are a lot of things common to both those
kinds of students, in terms of creating fun stuff without a lot of fuss,
and if I ever get back into that I'll check out the kinds of things you
bring up here. 

Me too! I took Mechanical Drawing as an elective in high school in 1961
-- preferred it to Home Ec!
 

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[discuss] Product improvements

Posted: 05 Apr 2010 08:34 PM PDT

Bhargav Prasanna wrote: 

No, I don't think so.

Michael, try sending a message to
discuss-subscribe-michaelbscheff=org. Subject and
content don't matter, just the address. You should soon get a
confirmation message; respond to that, and you'll be subscribed. If you
have any trouble with this, I'll help off-list.

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[discuss] word perfect read and compatible

Posted: 30 Mar 2010 06:23 AM PDT

Which version of WP?

Do you have a sample file for testing?

Bruce Martin
com

-----Original Message-----
From: NYS LAWS [mailto:com]
Sent: March 30, 2010 9:23 AM
To: org
Subject: [discuss] word perfect read and compatible

Hi - Can anyone please tell what program is compatible with word
perfect and can read wordperfect etc.?
Many Thanks.
Bob

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[discuss] OOo for iPod/iPhone

Posted: 24 Mar 2010 03:43 PM PDT

Hm, I don't dislike their software by any means, most of their
products don't really fit any needs I have, for example my main
requirement of a phone is ridiculously good battery life because I'm
forgetful. I just...respect that they are good for some people, but
not for my needs.



On 25 March 2010 23:04, Jan Lolling <com> wrote: 

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[discuss] 4 key points

Posted: 24 Mar 2010 11:56 AM PDT

> > The Renaissance project is shaping up really well. We need to get as many 

I don't want to sound negative, but... the ribbon is a bad idea, imho.

There are far too many inconsistencies in the ribbon interface. Things move, depending on
what you are doing, for no obvious reason. Sometimes buttons are large, sometimes they
are small. Sometimes they have an icon - sometimes the same button does not. Back in my
day, 'Consistency' was drummed into you when you learnt UI design.

I've been teaching MSO for several years. Office 2007 has just caused headaches - to
students who use a machine set up with different resolution, who find the layout of MSO
changes on each machine. At least Office 2003 tried to keep all the buttons stuck in one
place.

I feel like an idiot when someone in a class asks a question and I cannot easily answer,
because I find the MSO 07 interface so counter-intuitive. I'm used to the file/edit/etc way of
working. Finding years' worth of teaching materials suddenly become obsolete because
Microsoft have decided they will does not make you want to stay with the product. At least
handouts prepared for Word 97 could be used with Word 2003, with minimal editing.

What do we say to organisations who have invested in training and manuals for OOo3.x if 4.x
looks weird - "oh, sorry, buy more stuff for the 'free' software"?

The OOo interface might benefit from a bit of sprucing up (they could do a lot worse than
Symphony IMO), but copying MSO will cause far more annoyances than it fixes. If an
interface overhaul is deemed appropriate, either give the user a choice of new or old
interface (a-la Winzip), or make sure a fork can continue to support the old interface with any
new features.

Those are my own thoughts anyway!

Clarke

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